Our comment on “Join the work of transformation” posted on NCR

One way we might join the work of transformation of our Church and our country is to see clearly how the present U.S. governing situation resembles the modus operandi of South American dictators trained by the U.S. School of the Americas.

William Cavanaugh has first-hand experience with the Church in Chile during the military dictatorship of General Pinochet’s reign (1973-1990), whose regime he describes as “stoking the fires of confusion and disorder” by:

  • “fragmentation and disruption of previous expected order”
  • “discrediting people and their assessments of what is happening”
  • “creating chaos to simulate the need for order” (order meaning the elimination of dissent)
  • “strategic lying and double logic” (both affirming and denying the same point in one statement)
  • “the strategic art of abnormalizing…where the people become victims of fear and anxiety.

Any of the above sound familiar?  …feel a wee bit familiar?
Of course, nothing like dictatorship could ever happen in the USA?

Quotes above FROM: TORTURE and EUCHARIST by William Cavanaugh.

Chapter 2 from Cavanaugh’s book might have something to teach us all:
“The Church Learns How to be Oppressed.”   More on that to come.

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Above is our comment on:  National Catholic Reporter “Editorial: Join the work of transformation”    ncronline.org/news/justice/editorial-join-work-transformation

https://RiteBeyondRome.com

Traditionalists, a “tiny segment of the Catholic Church”…REALLY?

“Civil war in the global church?
Is there really a war in the Church between ‘loyal Catholics’ committed to upholding the unchanging traditions and teachings of the Church and ‘progressives’ who have watered down Church doctrine and practice?”  Article by Robert Mickens
La Croix International 10.21.16  

Sister Lea’s Comment on the above article censored by LA CROIX International:

Traditionalists, a “tiny segment of the Catholic faithful and hierarchy? REALLY?

“…the heads of Europe’s 33 national episcopal conferences…gathered to elect a new president of the Council of European Bishops’ Conferences. They settled on Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco of Italy, a choice that can only be seen as a direct challenge to Pope Francis.”

Commonweal Magazine 10.12.16 “Bagnasco elected in challenge to Francis”by Robert Mickens https://international.la-croix.com/news/bagnasco-elected-in-challenge-to-francis/4046

With no Vatican II Rite/Branch of Catholicism in union with Rome, the strong outreach of traditionalists is succeeding in filling the vacuum left by disillusioned and disappeared Vatican II Catholics (and their children). https://RiteBeyondRome.com

“Huge gap separates Pope Francis from liturgical traditionalists” by Massimo Faggioli

Our comment below on Massimo Faggioli’s article…comment censored by Global Pulse Magazine  (GPM article link below):

“We appreciate Massimo Faggioli’s hope that Vatican II Church is going to make a come-back. However, in the few short years Pope Francis has, do you really believe he can reverse the massive “particular sympathy and irenic attitude” towards traditionalism” imbibed by the Catholic population and taught in many universities, seminaries, parishes and publications worldwide for the past 30+ years?

Furthermore, with the dying off of so many Vatican II Catholic clergy, theologians and laity, should we really sit back and depend on Pope Francis to revive the Vatican II Church…against the strong and pervasive traditionalist push for a “smaller, purer Church”?

Fact is, the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church has set itself up as a formidable opponent to Vatican II and its prophetic interpretations of theology, governance, liturgy and Catholic identity.  So why not let elder brother Rome stand guard over Council of Trent hermeneutics as the representative of institutional Catholicism?

Meanwhile, Pope Francis is in a position to liberate Vatican II from the hands of those who shall never see Vatican II  as anything more than a confirmation of the Council of Trent.

Pope Francis can protect the universal Church from schism by blessing the Trentonian and Vatican II traditions as “equally valid yet different” branches of Catholic thought and practice.

This move would be somewhat akin to the “separate yet one-with” brotherhood of Roman and the Eastern Church Catholicism which has a less scholastic/more mystical interpretations of Catholic theology, governance and liturgy than its Roman “elder brother”.

Otherwise, Francis dies and the Church moves comfortably back into its Curial mode of Trent Council Catholicism, as if Vatican II never really happened, no?”

Massimo Faggioli’s article: “Huge gap separates Pope Francis from liturgical tradionalists” – Global Pulse Magazine
http://www.globalpulsemagazine.com/news/huge-gap-separates-pope-francis-from-liturgical-tradionalists/3568     (article published 7.18.2016)

Roman Rite Catholics Speak Out

(Quotes from discussion on National Catholic Reporter)

John S. to Sister Lea:  
“If you truly understood the meaning, teachings and import of the Second Vatican Council you would not be so quick to misuse it as an excuse for advocating that which is not Catholic truth and promoting what the Council Fathers never taught.
You are accepting what Pope Benedict XVI rightly called the “hermeneutic of rupture” rather than the “hermeneutic of continuity”.
The Second Vatican Council was in no sense a “super council” that denied or changed what had come before it in time. Its goal was pastoral, as the Church sought new ways to teach the ancient truths of the Church.”


Sister Lea to John S:
“
There needs to be a “hermeneutic of singularity” which addresses the age of change in which we live! Vatican II Fathers succeeded in opening the Church to change, whether they intended to do that or not.
Would the Holy Spirit not have wanted to prepare the Church for these times of geometrically progressing change…ancient truths and all…continually transvaluing them so that they stay ALIVE for every generation?
”







John S  to Sister Lea:
“And yet truth must remain rooted in what is eternally true for it to have any value for the human soul which was created immortal so that it would throughout time continue to seek the eternal God who is the source of all truth
.  Newness and change for their own sake – uprooted and disconnected from the sacred deposit of faith – are a recipe for disaster, which the history of schism, heresy and apostasy show all too well.
”

Sister Lea:
Agreed, “Newness and change for their own sake – uprooted and disconnected from the sacred deposit of faith – are a recipe for disaster, which the history of schism, heresy and apostasy show all too well.
”  The Vatican II Rite I speak of is not interested  in schism, heresy and apostasy…or even disconnection from the sacred deposit of faith…just interested in taking a look at all this from a very different point of view.

P. John to John S:
“Now hold on John. Ole Sis Lea might have a point here. Acknowledge the rupture, acknowledge the new theology, let them go off and develop their own rite (we can call it the – oh I don’t know – the NOVUS ORDO or something), give them their own bishops and let them go their way. The rest of us Latin Rite Catholics can get on with being – well – CATHOLIC, and in 50 years or so the NOVUS ORDO rite, having continued to shrink due to abortion contraception, defection, etc., will finally collapse. Then we can bury the whole thing down the memory hole as just another bad experiment and move on with the flourishing Latin Rite. I tell ya, Ole Sis IS on to something…”
    
  
  
John S. to P. John:

“Well said but I’m afraid you have spelled out what has in fact happened with far too many Catholics, all of them using a vague sense of “Vatican II” as a defense.
What is untrue will sooner or later fail because it is not of God.
As Rabbi Gamaliel said to the assembled Sanhedrin, speaking of the gospel of Christ,, “if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them.”
Heresy has always failed and will always fail because it is of man, not of God.”

Sister Lea:

Ah, YES!  We will let God do the judging.  So no worries about that!  Besides, the Vatican II Rite might just bring Catholics BACK to the Church in 50 years!  You never know.  No one has dibs on the Holy Spirit!  And thanks for your concern!