Dare We Catholics Believe Differently?

Have we even begun to understand what degree of change the Holy
Spirit was/is calling forth from within the event of the Second Vatican Council?

Some Catholics see the past few decades…from a different viewpoint…
…as an erosion of faith in the doctrines we have…

But others look at Vatican II as a gift of the Holy Spirit,
as God calling forth a whole new perspective on doctrine…
in which case, there is the need for a very deep deconstruction of
“how we believed before and often still do now.”

A deconstruction of Catholic belief
down to the very bedrock of our faith…

leaving behind
cherished understandings of doctrine…
in order to get to the root of doctrine
and its applications for our time.

NOT to change or break down Roman Rite theology …
which keeps the institution focused on certainty and security in the everyday world,
…
BUT to be a “next-door” theology in union with Rome…
……..from the point of a world constantly adapting to change…
…that each theology may call forth and challenge the other 
in our uncommon faith
in Jesus the Christ and our proclamation of the Good News to the world.

Uncommon Faith speaking from two different perspectives:

+Roman Rite Catholicism from the perspective of the “strong force” of a
…hierarchical, unchanging, all-knowing, all powerful God who is everywhere,
a God who designed the universe according to the order of His Will.

+ Vatican II Rite Catholicism from the perspective of the “weak” strength of a
…God that calls and promises but doesn’t command, awaits response but doesn’t demand.
The Name of which God carries an event that stretches us
beyond what we know to where we are certain we must go,
to an order other than hierarchy (the internal order of chaos theory perhaps),
…a divine “stepping back” which reveals how much we tend to rely on force as power,
…a divine will that models and solicits forgiveness, hospitality and love of the other
as the determining factors of who discovers or “gets into” the kingdom of God

More on Vatican II Theology to come on Rite Beyond Rome.
Meanwhile, read John D. Caputo’s books:
On Religion and The Weakness of God, A Theology of the Event with us.
Interested in conversation…comment below and/or email 4Vatican2Rite@gmail.com

View, share, download:
Slide Presentation: EXPLORING A VATICAN II RITE

Position Paper:  Resolving Polarization of Vatican II and Roman Catholic Visions

Sisters Lea and Consilia
https://ritebeyondrome.com

Really? “Next Schism Already Here”

Phyllis Zagano starts out here with her article on National Catholic Reporter:

“The next schism isn’t down the road somewhere. It is already here. The proponents are lined up in a serious face-off, their team shirts emblazoned “Pre-Vatican II” and “Post-Vatican II…

The fissure is getting worse, as more and more younger people come along yearning for the good old days (before they were born) when everything was orderly, everything had its place, and the rules were followed.”

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/just-catholic/next-schism-already-here

“This verbal war…the one of the good Catholics against the bad Catholics, with “good”or “bad” being defined by which side you are on…how long must that war endure?

What Massive Harm the two sides are doing to each other and the Church by not believing in each other’s good will!
What scandal we give to our children and then wonder why they have little or no desire to remain in our Church!

So, there are Catholics who desperately need certainty and security in this rapidly changing world…one can understand this.

Must the post-Vatican II side deride and vilify the pre-Vatican II side for their vision of saving the world by hanging on to “traditional” understandings of doctrine and practice…even though we might see some of those values as outmoded, distorted, even un-Christlike?  Surely they see us in a similar light.

And yes, there are Catholics who see the desperate need for change in the Church…change that cannot wait 50 or 500 years more…whereby time presses that need under the vision of Church as Rock of Peter rather than Barque of Peter on the open sea.

Must the pre-Vatican II side deride and vilify those in the Church who see Vatican II differently than they do? Must they denounce as heretical any desire or attempt to deconstruct tradition in order to follow it more faithfully in our time? Must they harass and hound us for not being able to think like them anymore than they are unable to think like us?

SCHISM IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR EITHER SIDE. The Catholic Family Tree started out from one Root in Jersalem, branching out into three different traditions of Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria.
We need a Vatican II Branch of the Church something like theologian Daniel Maguire’s article in Crux 9.13.15, “Will Catholicism go the Way of Judiasm?” (with its Orthodox, Conservative, Reform branches).”

Read “A Whole New Branch of Catholicism?” and other articles on https://RiteBeyondRome.com

¡No existe un Ritual del Vaticano II! Qué pérdida para el mundo Y la Iglesia!

(Translation of RITE BEYOND ROME document  No Vatican II Rite! What Loss to World & Church)

¡No existe un Ritual[1] del Vaticano II!…Qué pérdida para el mundo y la Iglesia!

Vaya, ¿querrá decir esto que el Concilio Vaticano II, sólo fue uno más de esos Concilios de la Iglesia?

No es así. Este Concilio fue obviamente un Concilio muy peligroso, porque pudo haber cambiado la Iglesia de hoy y el Mundo, si no hubiese sido percibido como una amenaza para el Ritual Romano del Catolicismo.

“Eviten que cause una ruptura en la Iglesia”, ha sido la preocupación central de todos los Papas post-Concilio Vaticano II. “Espiritualícenlo… sumérganlo en el Ritual Romano y todos estaremos mejor así.

El Papa Francisco ha tomado una dirección distinta: al enfocarse en: ayudar a los pobres y alejarse de cambios doctrinales que constriñen la estructura jerárquica Romana, su estrategia está encaminada a socializar el Vaticano II..

¿Acaso el mundo está hoy mejor, sin la completa implementación del Vaticano II y su consecuente nuevo Ritual Católico con su apertura, versus un sistema cerrado de acercamiento al Mundo y a la Iglesia?

 Veamos… ¿tendríamos…

Un fracaso masivo de la conciencia cristiana, ante la respuesta mundial a la crisis global de los inmigrantes… una crisis similar a la experimentada por la conciencia cristiana durante el Holocausto, un fracaso moral, que incluyó la introducción de armas nucleares… Estas fueron algunas de las razones de peso que llevaron a convocar el Segundo Concilio Vaticano.

Si en los 80’s hubiera surgido del Concilio un Ritual Vaticano II, ¿estaríamos involucrados hoy en día, en los siguientes fenómenos globales/nacionales?

  • ¿Un incremento considerable de las guerras étnicas y religiosas?
  • ¿Nuevo aumento de: un racismo descarado, anti-semita y xenófobo?
  • ¿Nuevos candidatos favoritos nacionalistas, con anti-xyz posturas fascistas?
  • ¿La regresión, en el llamado Primer mundo, hacia un nacionalismo egocéntrico y amante de las denominaciones?
  • ¿Cabildeo de las grandes Corporaciones en contra de: medidas de control para no afectar el clima, regulación de los procesos bancarios, programas domésticos?

¿Está la Iglesia en un mejor estado, por haberse resistido al movimiento del Vaticano II hacia un cambio en el paradigma de su teología, gobierno y liturgia?

    Veamos… ¿Se habrían dado los siguientes hechos?

  • Una resistencia fuerte y prolongada de parte del clero y de la alta Jerarquía para rendir cuentas responsablemente de los abusos sexuales.
  • Una ruptura conservadores/liberales dentro de la Iglesia, con separaciones en las parroquias, en las comunidades religiosas y en las familias.
  • Una pérdida, sin precedentes, de católicos practicantes y comprometidos con sus parroquias que aún continua, -y a nivel mundial-, y que incluye la pérdida de vocaciones al sacerdocio y a la vida religiosa… así como la pérdida de mujeres ordenadas para el ministerio.

Según lo expresado por el Cardenal Kasper: “No solo no hemos implementado en su totalidad el Concilio, sino que tampoco hemos recibido los documentos post-conciliares; continúan sin tener efecto o resultados. Estamos en un punto muerto. (Cardenal Kasper , ORIGENS, 2 de Julio de 2015, Volumen 45 num.9, Vaticano II: Hacia una Unidad Multifacética)

 Existe una resistencia hacia el Concilio Vaticano II, porque propone un cambio tal en la perspectiva del Catolicismo Romano… por lo tanto:

… para lograr ser de nuevo una influencia moral eficaz en el mundo moderno.

Necesitamos con urgencia un Ritual del Vaticano II?

… al lado de los 23 Rituales Católicos diferentes,

… un Ritual Vaticano II para estar fraternal y Sororalmente en unión con Roma?

Piénsenlo!

 [1] La palabra Ritual (Rite en Inglés) se entiende como la herencia Litúrgica, Teológica, espiritual y disciplinaria, que es distinta, dependiendo de la cultura y las circunstancias históricas de los pueblos, y encuentra su expresión en la forma autónoma de vivir su fé, de cada Iglesia.

Muchas gracias a Luisa Maria Rivera por su traducción de este artículo!

A Whole New Branch of Catholicism?

For some the path to a healthier church is about waiting for the orthodox positions of the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church to change.

Others see no hope in this patient hopefulness…no hope that “patient hopefulness” will eventually resolve the polarization afflicting the Catholic Church in a post-Vatican II age.

Once Judaism had to face a similar case of on-going polarization within itself.  From this realization flowed the diversified branches of orthodox, conservative and reform interpretations of their faith.

What if we are in need of a three-pronged Catholicism…orthodox, conservative and reform?

  • Not such a strange idea as it seems, if you check out “Will Catholicism go the way of Judaism?” by Marquette University theologian, Daniel Maguire.*
  • Why even Pope Francis sees the need for a “multi-faceted unity” of faith in Cardinal Kasper’s article, “Vatican II: Toward a Multifaceted Unity,” (ORIGINS, July 2, 2015)**

Catholicism is not new to the idea of branching out.  Rome, Antioch and Alexandria are today three branches of the original Christian “mother” Church in Jerusalem.  Has the time come to officially recognize a Vatican II Branch of Catholicism?

We could say Holy Mother Church has already conceived a new Vatican II vision by the Holy Spirit at Vatican II.  That vision is the seed of a new branch of Catholicism born in the documents and in the people who experienced the implementation of the Second Ecumenical Vatican Council and in those who were later influenced by it.

 

The Roman Branch of Catholicism was reared and educated in scholasticism, systematic theo-logic and an ethics of justice.

The yet-to-be-proclaimed Vatican II Branch has been nurtured in a conciliar commitment to “the construction of a new form of the church adequate to the demands of our age” as Richard R. Gaillardetz puts it.*

This new form of Church would, according to Gaillardetz, include:

  • dialogical engagement compared to hierocratic monoply on truth
  • mutual respect between clergy and laity, differing from a hierarchy of respect
  • pastoral approach to doctrinal formation  in contrast to a scholastic approach
  • unity-in-difference committed to humble learning from each other

In his book , An Unfinished Council, Chapter 4, “Toward a New Ecclesial Form,” Richard Gaillardetz does not suggest the formation of a new branch of Catholicism, but rather a rebuilding of the temple from within the ruins of the old temple by means of a “synthesized reading” of the documents of Vatican II.

We do not find this solution to be a fair assessment of Roman Catholicism and its contributions to the Church.

  • Roman Catholicism is hardly a temple in ruins. It has complete control of the Church.
    • Even though that complete control has driven many from the pews,
      Roman Rite Catholicism has a very faithful following of cardinals, bishops and people who want the the church to return to the highly-structured Roman system of theology/doctrine, governance and liturgy.
  • Not to mention, there will always be people who find support in highly-structured systems for the certainty and security of mind they provide. It may also be that we gravitate toward a more structured approach at different times in our lives.

There will also always be people who need a less-structured variation of Catholicism……those who need a more open Catholicism…

…much as Paul of Tarsus needed a more open interpretation of the Apostles’ original interpretation of Christianity as a Jewish sect entirely compatible with Judaism.

…much as early Catholicism later needed to make room for the Roman and Eastern Rite branches of the faith.

For these people and all those who see Vatican II as a singular event in the course of the history and future of the Catholic Church, we ask again,

Would a Vatican II Branch of the Church be such a terrible thing?

Would it not unify the Catholic Church and PREVENT schism?

Would it not it make the Church MORE healthy and LESS myopic?

For more information:
https://ritebeyondrome.com/picture-the-possibility-of-a-vatican-ii-rite/
For further discussion:  https://ritebeyondrome.com

Links below are to sources quoted in this article:

* https://cruxnow.com/faith/2015/09/13/will-catholicism-go-the-way-of-judaism/

**http://dc2015.ei-research.net/origins/

Continue reading

Aunque sería excelente que la Estrategia del Papa Francisco, lograra una reforma efectiva…

(Translation of RITE BEYOND ROME document  Much As We Want Pope Francis’ Strategy for Reform to Work…)

Aunque sería excelente que la Estrategia del Papa Francisco, lograra una reforma efectiva…

En respuesta al artículo de Robert Mickens, publicado por el National Catholic Reporter, “Francisco está Reformando la Curia Romana con una Estrategia de soslayo”.

R. Mickens pregunta: ¿Está el Papa llevando a cabo los movimientos que aseguren que, el deje un legado que no podrá ser revertido cuando muera?

Esto implica que el Papa tendría que llevar a cabo, algunos cambios en la organización y en la estructura.

Mickens señala que la estrategia del Papa Francisco de “neutralizar” a la CDF (Congregación de la Doctrina y la Fe) y “suavizar” las cabezas de otras ramas de la Curia,

Hmmmmm… estos cambios van a tomar años, y
además no sabemos si el Papa logrará llevarlos a cabo; y aún si lo hace…

Esta estrategia del Papa Francisco de neutralizar y suavizar, ¿logrará llevar a un cambio dentro del Ritual de la Iglesia? 1

…una Iglesia/Ritual en la cual tantos sacerdotes y obispos han sido formados, durante los últimos 30 años, en las manos del Opus Dei y de la Sociedad de San Pio X (Hermandad Sacerdotal de San Pio X), fraternidad sacerdotal internacional, cuyo objetivo es formar, apoyar y animar a los santos sacerdotes a permanecer fieles a las enseñanzas tradicionales de la Iglesia y de la misa… con su visión ultraconservadora y entendimiento de lo que es la Iglesia?

La visión de la Iglesia Romana/Ritual, es una visión muy diferente de la del Papa Francisco… con su “ética situacional”, que el Papa Benedicto XVI condenó.
Pero esto no es aún el centro o el corazón del problema de la reforma de la Iglesia.

La visión del Papa Francisco sobre la Reforma de la Iglesia, está estancada en la visión jerárquica de Constantino, según la cual, esta es la única estrategia para lograr la unidad. Esta visión jerárquica está basada, a su vez, en una teología de Dios, como el Divino Monarca o como el Amoroso Divino Monarca. Esta reforma NO es la reforma que el Concilio Vaticano II plantea, no importa cuan “Sinodal” (de Sínodo) pueda volverse la Iglesia con el paso de los años.

Por otra parte,

El Papa Francisco entiende la idea de una unidad multifacética, de acuerdo con el Cardenal Kasper en su artículo “Vatican II, hacia una unidad multifacética” (ORIGINS Volumen 45, número 9).

Sin embargo el Papa Francisco persiste en su postura de la unidad jerárquica, en lugar de considerar que el Ritual Romano, probablemente nunca lleve a la Iglesia a abrazar la diversidad.

La Iglesia necesita el Ritual Romano con su visión jerárquica de Dios, de la teología, gobierno y Litúrgia. Y sin embargo…

Así como la Iglesia necesitaba la aportación del Rito Malakita de Oriente durante el Concilio Vaticano II para confrontarlo y considerar la posibilidad de abrazar lo Sinodal, la colegialidad y una visión distinta del mundo…

La Iglesia necesita también un Ritual del Vaticano II para confrontar y ser confrontada por el Ritual Romano y sus hermanos y hermanas de los Ritos Occidentales en unión con Roma.

Sin esto, estaremos estancados para siempre, tratando de empujar y lograr la Reforma entre las visiones de Roma y del Vaticano II, de lo que es la Iglesia.

1 Aquí la palabra Ritual (Rite en Ingles) se entiende como la herencia litúrgica, teológica, espiritual y disciplinaria, que es diferente, dependiendo de la cultura y las circunstancias históricas de los pueblos y encuentra su expresión en la forma autónoma de cada Iglesia de vivir su fé.

El link para leer todo el artículo de Robert Micken es: http.//
www.ncronline.org/blogs/roman-observer/francis-reforming-roman-curiacircumvention

Muchas gracias a Luisa Maria Rivera por su traducción de este artículo!

 

[Escriba aquí]

 

 

Roman Rite Catholics Speak Out

(Quotes from discussion on National Catholic Reporter)

John S. to Sister Lea:  
“If you truly understood the meaning, teachings and import of the Second Vatican Council you would not be so quick to misuse it as an excuse for advocating that which is not Catholic truth and promoting what the Council Fathers never taught.
You are accepting what Pope Benedict XVI rightly called the “hermeneutic of rupture” rather than the “hermeneutic of continuity”.
The Second Vatican Council was in no sense a “super council” that denied or changed what had come before it in time. Its goal was pastoral, as the Church sought new ways to teach the ancient truths of the Church.”


Sister Lea to John S:
“
There needs to be a “hermeneutic of singularity” which addresses the age of change in which we live! Vatican II Fathers succeeded in opening the Church to change, whether they intended to do that or not.
Would the Holy Spirit not have wanted to prepare the Church for these times of geometrically progressing change…ancient truths and all…continually transvaluing them so that they stay ALIVE for every generation?
”







John S  to Sister Lea:
“And yet truth must remain rooted in what is eternally true for it to have any value for the human soul which was created immortal so that it would throughout time continue to seek the eternal God who is the source of all truth
.  Newness and change for their own sake – uprooted and disconnected from the sacred deposit of faith – are a recipe for disaster, which the history of schism, heresy and apostasy show all too well.
”

Sister Lea:
Agreed, “Newness and change for their own sake – uprooted and disconnected from the sacred deposit of faith – are a recipe for disaster, which the history of schism, heresy and apostasy show all too well.
”  The Vatican II Rite I speak of is not interested  in schism, heresy and apostasy…or even disconnection from the sacred deposit of faith…just interested in taking a look at all this from a very different point of view.

P. John to John S:
“Now hold on John. Ole Sis Lea might have a point here. Acknowledge the rupture, acknowledge the new theology, let them go off and develop their own rite (we can call it the – oh I don’t know – the NOVUS ORDO or something), give them their own bishops and let them go their way. The rest of us Latin Rite Catholics can get on with being – well – CATHOLIC, and in 50 years or so the NOVUS ORDO rite, having continued to shrink due to abortion contraception, defection, etc., will finally collapse. Then we can bury the whole thing down the memory hole as just another bad experiment and move on with the flourishing Latin Rite. I tell ya, Ole Sis IS on to something…”
    
  
  
John S. to P. John:

“Well said but I’m afraid you have spelled out what has in fact happened with far too many Catholics, all of them using a vague sense of “Vatican II” as a defense.
What is untrue will sooner or later fail because it is not of God.
As Rabbi Gamaliel said to the assembled Sanhedrin, speaking of the gospel of Christ,, “if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them.”
Heresy has always failed and will always fail because it is of man, not of God.”

Sister Lea:

Ah, YES!  We will let God do the judging.  So no worries about that!  Besides, the Vatican II Rite might just bring Catholics BACK to the Church in 50 years!  You never know.  No one has dibs on the Holy Spirit!  And thanks for your concern!

Against a Vatican II Rite

“If you truly understood the meaning, teachings and import of the Second Vatican Council you would not be so quick to misuse it as an excuse for advocating that which is not Catholic truth and promoting what the Council Fathers never taught.

You are accepting what Pope Benedict XVI rightly called the “hermeneutic of rupture” rather than the “hermeneutic of continuity”.

The Second Vatican Council was in no sense a “super council” that denied or changed what had come before it in time. Its goal was pastoral, as the Church sought new ways to teach the ancient truths of the Church.”

 
  • “There needs to be a “hermeneutic of singularity” which addresses the age of change in which we live!   Vatican II Fathers succeeded in opening the Church to change, whether they intended to do that or not.

    Would the Holy Spirit not have wanted to prepare the Church for these times of geometrically progressing change…ancient truths and all…continually transvaluing them so that they stay ALIVE for every generation?”

    Visit  PICTURE THE POSSIBILITY OF A VATICAN II RITE
    and  Reasons for a Vatican II Rite

Much As We Want Pope Francis’ Strategy for Reform to Work…

In response to article in National Catholic Reporter: “Francis is Reforming the Roman Curia by Circumvention” by Robert Mickens.

Robert Mickens asks: “Is the pope making any moves to ensure that he will leave a legacy that cannot be undone when he is gone? Which means he has to make some structural or organizational changes.”

Mickens notes Pope Francis’ strategy of “Neutralizing” the CDF and “Softening” the heads of other branches of the Curia.

Hmmmmm…will this change, which will take years that Pope Francis may or may not have, ever come about? And even if it does…

This “neutralizing and softening strategy” of Pope Francis…
…can it ever lead to structural change within the RC Rite/Church?
…… a Rite/Church in which so many ‘new’ priests/bishops of the past 30 years have been formed in the hands of O P U S Dei and SSPX…
……with their ultraconservative vision and understanding of the Church?

The Roman Rite vision of Church is A VERY different vision from Pope Francis…with his “situational ethics” which Pope Benedict XVI condemned.
But even this isn’t the core of the problem of Church reform.

Pope Francis’ vision of Church reform is stuck in Constantine’s vision of hierarchy as the only strategy to unity. This vision of hierarchic unity, in turn, is based on a theology of God as Divine Monarch, even Divinely Loving Monarch. This reform is NOT the reform that Vatican II points to, no matter how “synodal” the Church gets as the years go on.

On the other hand,

Pope Francis understands the idea of a multifaceted unity according to Cardinal Kasper and his ORIGINS article, “Vatican II: Toward a Multifaceted Unity. (Volume 45, Number 9).

Yet, Pope Francis’ reform persists in the direction of hierarchic unity instead of considering that the Roman Rite may never really take to Vatican II’s embrace of diversity.

The Church NEEDS the Roman Rite with its hierarchic vision of God, theology, governance and liturgy.  AND YET…

Just as the Church needed the input of the Melkite Eastern Rite at Vatican II to challenge it to consider and embrace synodality, collegiality, and a different view of the world…

…SO THE CHURCH ALSO NEEDS A VATICAN II RITE to challenge and be challenged by the Roman Rite and its sister/brother Eastern Rites in union with Rome.

 

Otherwise, we will be stuck forever trying to push and pull reform back and forth between Roman and Vatican II visions for the Church.   No?

Link to Robert Micken’s article: http://www.ncronline.org/blogs/roman-observer/francis-reforming-roman-curia-circumvention

Subscribe, Share, Comment or Contribute your ideas on Rite Beyond Rome. 4vatican2rite@gmail.com

Vatican II, A Rupture in Catholicism?

For too long, we Vatican II Catholics have understandably confused Roman Rite Catholicism with the Universal Catholic Church,
…mainly because Roman Rite Catholicism is internally confused about that one as well.

Vatican II, however, was definitely a rupture in that kind of confused thinking.
More than that, Vatican II was a rupture in the very theology that
…supports what Rome defines as bona fide Catholicism.

Meanwhile, Roman Catholicism has tried to quietly stitch together that rupture between
…Vatican II theology and RC theology with authoritative words
…like “continuity,” “tradition,” and “unity”.
The  justifiable effort here was to spiritualize the aggiornamento (updating) of the Church …in order to save the Church from the “excesses” of Vatican II.
The unintended consequence of this action was to shut down /melt down  Vatican II …into business (theology/governance/liturgy) as usual.

The Holy Spirit, however, was not to be shut out or melted down into business as usual.
Just as the first Pentecost was a rupture in the Judaic vision of itself, humanity and God,
…so was Vatican II a rupture in the Roman Church’s view of itself, God and the world
…a rupture in Roman Catholic Theology.
(Vatican II expert Richard Gaillardetz discusses “micro-ruptures evident in the teaching of Vatican II” in Boston College School of Theology video, “Fulfilling the Unrealized Vision of Vatican II”.)

With Vatican II, the Holy Spirit initiated a challenge to Roman Rite theology,
…as well as RC hierarchic style of governance and its liturgical/sacramental practice.
Vatican II also challenged the ROMAN Catholic  vision of the Church
…as well as its concepts of Catholic identity and Catholic culture.

Any kind of rupture, even sacred micro-ruptures in theology alone;
…these were not the intent of Vatican II,
…but these ruptures were definitely the consequence of the Vatican II event.

The purpose of Vatican II was the updating of the Roman Catholic Church,
…and some cardinals/bishops didn’t even see the need for that.  

The Holy Spirit had different ideas, inviting the Council to move in other directions
…right from the start
…as typified when the cardinals/bishops resisted
…the imposition of a curial-fixed agenda on the Council proceedings.

How often, the Holy Spirit calls us in one direction, only to take us off down a road we never expected, always with results beyond any we could ever have imagined. 

Continue reading

IS This Pontificate Stuck in the Mud?

Text below is response to this NCR link:
The pontificate might be stuck in the mud | National Catholic Reporter

Is this pontificate stuck in the mud as the above NCR article suggests…
OR is it our unrealistic expectations of this pontificate that are stuck in the mud?

Almost one millennium ago, Roman Catholicism rejected synodality in favor of monarchical papacy and centralized government in opposition to Eastern Church synodality…resulting in the East-West Great Schism of 1054.

Vatican II re-introduced synodality to the Roman Church/Rite through the influence of Patriarch Maximos of the Melkite Eastern Church/Rite in union with Rome.
Yet, because of an official note Pope Paul VI attached to Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, papal monarchy was once again preserved in its former glory dating as far back as 5th century Christianity.

In response to the official papal note attached to Lumen Gentium, AMERICA Magazine article on Synodality said, “While the advance of collegiality among bishops is regarded as one of the great ambitions of the Second Vatican Council, it was an idea still born.”   7/1/2013

WHY?  Because papal monarchy and centralized government are embedded in Roman Church/Rite theology and tradition. 

As long as God is held in faith as the Divine Monarch, so long will Roman Catholicism model its divinely appointed government on monarchy over synodality.
Likewise, so long will the most significant breakthroughs of Vatican II be still born.

When are we Vatican II Catholics going to stop expecting Roman Rite Catholicism to surrender its theological understanding of itself? 

Synodality and collegiality are NOT compatible with Roman Rite theology, governance or liturgy.

WHAT CHOICES ARE LEFT FOR VATICAN II CATHOLICS? 

Must Vatican II Catholicism remain still born for another millennium or longer?
Do we just wait and watch from heaven?  God will take care of everything for us?

Could we at least look at the possibility of a Vatican II Catholic Rite in union with Rome?  Might that be something the Holy Spirit is calling forth during this papacy?

Click here for PDF visual slide presentation “Exploring the Possibilities of a Vatican II Rite”.  Link, Share, or download this and/or Position Paper on “Saving Both Vatican II and Traditional Catholic Visions

Vatican II Catholics & Church Reform?

Is the Roman Catholic Rite capable of being reformed by Vatican II Catholics?
To that question, we would answer a definitive “NO!”…
Not because we don’t love the Church,
but because we are no longer of the ROMAN Catholic culture.

For too long, we Vatican II Catholics have understandably confused
Roman Rite Catholicism with the Universal Catholic Church,
mainly because Roman Rite Catholicism is internally confused about that one as well.
Vatican II, however, was a definitive rupture in that kind of confused thinking.
More than that, Vatican II was a rupture in
the very theology that supports what Rome defines as bona fide Catholicism.

To those of us in the position of being outsiders to Roman bona fide Catholicism,
God is no longer the divine monarch who rules the heavens and the earth,
meting out rewards and punishments according to obedience/disobedience ratios.

Given this scenario, how can WE even hope to reform Roman Rite Catholicism?
It is precisely because we no longer operate out of Roman Rite theology
that we must disqualify ourselves in the effort to reform ROMAN Catholicism.

By removing ourselves from reform the Roman Catholic Church,
we can free up Roman Rite Catholicism to reform itself.
More importantly, we free ourselves up to attend to our responsibility
to raise Vatican II from the globe-shattering council it was
to the Rite it needs to be right NOW!.

As long as we delay the consummation of this divine rupture in Catholicism,
for fear of acknowledging it or fear of what it demands of us,
that much longer will we delay the action
the Holy Spirit initiated at the Second Vatican Council.

The fact of the matter is that
The Catholic Church  NEEDS BOTH  the Roman and Vatican II Rites,
each for very different reasons…
just as we needed the Eastern Catholic Rites
and the very significant role they played in
re-introducing synodality, collegiality and other reforms
at the world-wide, ecumenical Council of Vatican II.

Catholicism needs its many rites
in order that we may challenge and learn from each other.

The unity of Catholicism is the miracle of a “separate yet one-with” diverse unity,
an unimaginable oneness of seemingly contradictory perspectives
that can only be brought together by the divine intervention of the Holy Spirit.

Google:  Rite Beyond Rome
Sisters Lea and Consilia

“Be open to the surprises of the Holy Spirit?”

“In his homily Thursday Pope Francis stressed the need to be open to the novelty of the Holy Spirit, by discerning new movements and directions without being immediately closed off from them.”

Source: Be open to the surprises of the Holy Spirit, Pope Francis advises :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

One of those surprises might be that the Holy Spirit is calling Vatican II Catholics to raise up a new Rite in union with the Pope and alongside the 23 other Catholic Rites including the Roman Rite.

As part of a larger family from its beginning, the Roman Rite/Church has blessed Catholicism with its many gifts, flaws and demands. In all this, it has always operated out of a monarchical God/authority theology with its rewards/punishments system of order.  Vatican II altered that vision of God and Catholicism.

  Vatican II will always be unacceptable at heart to the strictest understanding of Roman Rite Catholicism, except for those document statements which back-up traditionalism.  Roman Rite Catholicism is merely protecting and defending both the theology it considers to be God’s Will and the Church’s role and identity as it sees it.

Therefore, in appreciation for the Roman Rite and all it has done to bring Catholicism forward to us, we Vatican II Catholics have basically two options for remaining within the larger Catholic family in union with the pope…other than staying with the Roman Rite or joining one of the 22 Eastern Catholic Rites in union with Rome:

(1) Fight exceedingly well-organized, well-connected and well-supported entities like Opus  D e i which are not going to allow their Rite/Church to meld into a Vatican II mold no matter how patiently we hope and pray otherwise, no matter how hard Good Pope Francis tries to bring them around to the Spirit of Vatican II and other “innovations”.

(2) The other option for Vatican II Catholics is to take this “now quiet but still strong” rejection of Vatican II on the part of Roman traditionalism as the work of the Spirit…calling us forth to stand as strongly in our understanding of Catholicism as they do in theirs.

Then, maybe we hear the Holy Spirit trying to tell us something we don’t want to hear, even telling Pope Francis something he doesn’t want to hear…that we need both a Roman Catholic AND a Vatican II Rite within the fold of the Universal Church.

Seeing (2) as a viable option, we might at some point just want to discuss the possibilities in small groups, then in non-canonical parish or diocesan councils.  You think?

Whatever you do, don’t get overwhelmed with thinking that all this would demand duplicating Roman Rite Church structure.  It would not.

 

Saving Both Vatican II and Traditionalist Visions

There is no reason for Catholicism to be reserved only for its most orthodox believers.

The Church is large enough to presently accommodate 22 other Rites which view and practice Catholic theology, governance and liturgy differently…and still remain in union with Rome.

IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TOO SMALL FOR A VATICAN II RITE…where there would be a place for Vatican II Catholics all over the world?

For Position Paper:  RESOLVING POLARIZATION OF VATICAN II AND ROMAN CATHOLIC VIEWPONTS,  Click in document window below. Scroll up to bottom of document where you can zoom in to full page view.  Document Download also possible below.

 

WHY THE CHURCH NEEDS A NEW RITE ALONGSIDE THE ROMAN RITE…

Pope Francis is a good and holy man!  Many think he can save the Catholic Church from ripping apart at the seams.  Maybe so, but we think NOT!

Pope Francis’ job is to hold the threads of unity together as long as possible…
…even if that unity “cannot” surrender hierarchy as the model for God & Church,
…even if that unity “cannot” recognize the sexism of patriarchy,
…even if that unity “cannot” recognize sexual relationship outside man-woman marriage,
…even if that unity “cannot” discuss certain topics like women’s ordination,
…even if that unity must protect the image of the Church AT ALL COST.

Continue reading

Roman Catholic Church is not THE Catholic Church?

Can you believe….the Roman Catholic Church is not THE Catholic Church.  It is an autonomous or sui juris (of one’s own right) church like the Eastern Churches…in union with the bishop of Rome!  It is that “union with the bishop of Rome” which is the tie that binds ALL the autonomous churches together.

“The Latin Church is an autonomous or sui juris particular church in communion with the Catholic Church. There are several such sui iuris particular churches within the Catholic Church. Other examples are the Maronite Church, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church. They differ from each other in liturgy (ceremonies, vestments, chants, language), devotional traditions, theology, canon law, and pastors (even if in the same territory as another), but they all hold the same faith, and all see union with the bishop of Rome, the pope, as essential to being a Catholic.

The Latin Church is the largest of these sui juris churches, with a membership far greater than all the others taken together. It arose in Western Europe and North Africa, an area once encompassed by the Roman Empire, throughout which Latin was widely understood and spoken. It is sometimes called the Western Church. All the other sui iuris particular churches, of which there are 23, originated farther east and are, therefore, collectively known as the Eastern Catholic Churches. Because of the facility with which people can nowadays take up residence in a different country, members of all of these sui iuris particular churches are no longer confined to their areas of origin and can be found all over the world.”

Excerpt from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Church with footnotes from Modern Catholic Dictionary and other Catholic sources.

 

African Theologian Makes Good Points, Yet…

Four significant quotes from Fr. Agbonkhianmeghe Orobator, principal of Hekima University College in Nairobi and well-known African theologian:

1. “My reading of it (Amoris Laetitia) tells me that Francis reaffirms in uncompromising terms 
the church’s teaching on abortion, contraception, birth control, and 
marriage. What we must not forget is that (Pope Francis) is just as uncompromising 
in affirming the centrality of conscience (#303), discernment, pastoral 
accompaniment, and compassion.”

2. “Part of his message to us is that we need to refrain from the common 
practice of equating “irregularity” with “mortal sin” [paragraph 301].”

3. “If African bishops are wise, they would realize that the pope gives them
 license to be creative in addressing pastoral situations of family life 
and marriage. Francis is actually saying: “Don’t hide behind the veil 
of magisterium!”

4. “I believe that there is still a long way to go before we actually make 
the bold steps that are long overdue with regard to critical issues such
as the role of women in church, homosexual unions, reproductive rights,
all of which are broached and addressed in the document.”

RITE BEYOND ROME Response:

Fr. Orobator’s last quote about there being “a long way to go before we actually make 
the bold steps that are long overdue with regard to critical issues,”…this is why Catholicism needs a new inter-independent Vatican II Rite in union with Rome as part of the universal Catholic Church.

As an historic example of what a non-Roman Catholic Rite has already contributed to the universal Catholic Church, take “the small band of Melkite Eastern Rite/Church leaders, in a sea of Latin Rite hierarchs,” who brought their wisdom and long-term experience to the Second Vatican Council….”introducing such items as the use of the vernacular, eucharistic concelebration, communion under both species, restoration of the diaconate as a permanent order, creation of what would become the periodically held Synod of Bishops and the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, while championing new attitudes to and less offensive vocabulary in ecumenical relationships with other Christians…”
  (From article “Eastern Christians in Australia” by Lawrence Cross in Australian eJournal of Theology 19.2, August 2012)

Do you think that the Second Vatican Council would have ever been an “event of unparalleled significance,” as Vatican II expert Gailliardetz calls it, without the contributions of the inter-independent non-Roman Melkite Rite/Church in full union with Rome?

Could a Vatican II Catholic Rite/Church, with every intention of remaining in union with Rome…could it help shorten what Fr. Orobator calls the “long way to go before we actually make the bold steps that are long overdue with regard to critical issues such as the role of women in church, homosexual unions, reproductive rights, all of which are broached and addressed in “Amoris Laetitia”?

More than shorten the time for change, could that inter-independent Vatican II Rite help save the Catholic Church itself, including the Roman Rite/Church? 
Google Rite Beyond Rome.

(See National Catholic Reporter for full article on Fr. Orobator by Joshua McElwee , April 11, 2016.  http://ncronline.org/news/african-theologian-responds-amoris-laetitia)

A Church in Disconnect and Denial

“I’m nobody! Who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there’s a pair of us—don’t tell!
They’d banish us, you know.”

Here Emily Dickinson describes a certain unrecognized group of alienated Catholics, not those who have left the Church or stopped going to Mass, but those ministers, clergy and lay (including religious) who tote their unbelieving minds and weakened hearts to Mass or class, doing their utmost to convince others to believe what they themselves seriously question.

Ignoring the cognitive dissonance between what they teach/preach as “updated Catholicism,”  these theological and ministerial “heroes/heroines” are part of the class of Emily Dickenson’s “nobodies”, fearful of being banished if ever they should come out of the doctrinaire closet into which Catholicism has been stuffed of late.

Even good Pope Francis struggles to open the doors of that closet with his key of Mercy. But mercy is only about closing a blind eye to doctrine when what is needed is a thorough transvaluation of doctrine…A core re-working of doctrine made using an updated standard, one evolved from a raised consciousness of  humanity and its relationship to all other/Other.

Given the modern raised consciousness toward women, GLBT and other issues; the cognitive dissonance between what is preached and what is so otherwise self-evident is too great a disconnect for many. Catholicism, as it represents itself today, is a religion in denial, scratching its head while looking about blindly for explanations why previously highly-dedicated Catholics (clergy, lay and religious) have walked away along with the young who find no meaning in its closeted vaults.

Without a doubt, the Catholic Church as an institution will perpetuate itself. The question is, however: will that “smaller, purer” version of Catholicism be the “salt of the earth” which Jesus envisioned and which so many of us have tasted before and after the Second Vatican Council?

This matter does not have to remain so bleak as it appears. There are viable options, if we care/dare even to think about them, let alone discuss them.

Food for discussion: A Vatican II Rite Makes Sense for the Universal Catholic Church   (Whistle a happy tune while it loads!)

 

Unity pre-supposes Diversity

Psalm 132 (133) which reads: “Behold how good and how pleasant it is when brothers and sisters dwell together in unity.”

Comment Source: Vatican II Essays

Oscar Cullman, guest of the Secretariat of Unity at the Second Vatican Council, is mentioned frequently in Yves Congar’s Book, MY JOURNAL OF THE COUNCIL. Cullman argues that unity pre-supposes diversity; it cannot by definition by mere uniformity. Thus diversity may be seen as a necessary structure of unity…a polarity of unity and diversity as a necessary element within the structure of community.

“A community of one heart and one mind”… We need a “polarity of unity” between heart and mind, a polarity of unity where”brothers and sisters dwell together in unity” as in Psalm 132(133). We need the sacred separateness of inter-independent Catholic rites with their different interpretations of theology and different practices of governance and liturgy. We need the holy oneness of different rites challenging, remembering, creating anew in a dynamic on-going inter-coursing union.

We need a Vatican II Rite!
Vatican II and Roman Visions for the Church: Do They Really Sync?  http://wakeuplazarus.net/v2/ES…

“how far the Church still has to go”

How Far the Church Has to Go..
M…. says: “My take on 2015 for the church is that it is the first time in a long time, we’ve seen some reason for hope. But if so, we’re still early in this Advent of hope. As others have noted here, there are many serious problems to be overcome. So perhaps the assessment here might better be framed as being an early step, where the church is finally showing itself some of the work that’s needed.

*Splits among the bishops are no longer whispered in gossipy tones: they themselves have brought the battle out into the open.

*The scandal has YET to be dealt with as it should. Yes, Francis created a Commission, yet, by all appearances, they have been relegated to the sound proof, communications proof rooms deep in the Vatican, for virtually nothing of note has come from that group. So yet another year has gone by with only minimal cases of accountability: cases that simply had to be dealt with because the issues were so public.

* Little or no change took place with respect to the role of women in the church, and the few changes that were made, make it clear that women remain seen as second tier in the church.

Yes, Francis offers hope, and for that I am thankful. But if anything, the promise of that hope, as it played out in 2015, only adds emphasis as to how far the church still has to go, and THAT story is far from uplifting.”

Sister Lea  responds  to comment above:
“Yes, M…!  To add to the “how far the church still has to go”, don’t we have to face up to the fact that Vatican II vision for the Church is very often in direct conflict with Roman Rite vision for the Church?”
Google: “RITE BEYOND ROME”

Different Rites for Different Visions?

 

Source: Vatican II Essays

Vatican II and Roman Visions for the Church:
Do They Really Sync?

by Lea Hunter and Consilia Karli

Fifty years after Vatican II ended, liturgy has become, for the most part, a TV dinner served up in “one size fits all” portions instead of being a celebration of Catholic diversity in unity.   Why has liturgy lost so much of its Vatican II spirit of diversity?  We would answer:

1.     Because Rome’s understanding of unity is order, uniformity, hierarchy and obedience to hierarchy,

2.     Because diversity in unapproved thought or liturgical practice is viewed as the seed of schism from the Roman Catholic perspective.

Given this situation, it is hard to believe that liturgical reform was first on the agenda of Vatican II.
“This decision (to address liturgical reform first) was a profession of faith in what is truly central to the Church… a Church freed from the hierarchical narrowness of the previous hundred years and returned to its sacramental origins.” 
These are the words of the 35 year-old Joseph Ratzinger writing in his 1966 book about his views and experience as a scholarly advisor to the Second Vatican Council.  (Theological Higthlights of Vatican II by Joseph Ratzinger)

Little did the then-future pope know that liturgical reform would reach so deeply into and question so profoundly “what is truly central to the Church”.  Little did Fr. Ratzinger know then that he and his papal predecessor would do everything they could to shut down liturgical diversity along with all its concomitant theological inquiry. 

The situation in the Church today is this: Roman Rite Catholicism and Vatican II Catholicism are like conjoined twins moving in different directions.  Only this…one twin is stronger, always dragging the other along with it.  Vatican II is not yet a Catholic Rite alongside the 20+ other Catholic Rites in union with Rome.  So Vatican II, like the conjoined twin, has no life of its own, no freedom to develop its own theological perspective, it own liturgical expression or its own means of governance as other Catholic rites have.  As a result of this, the conjoined Roman/Vatican II Catholic body continues to bleed members into larger and larger pools of Dones and Nones, such that the entire conjoined body is at great risk of dying, or worse yet… at risk of becoming entirely irrelevant in the near future.

There is still opportunity to remedy the inevitable and unnecessary demise of a Church that believes itself invulnerable.  If Vatican II were raised from Council to the status of equal Rite/Church in union with Rome and the other inter-independent Eastern Catholic Rites/Churches, such separateness could redound to the greater benefit of the whole Body of Christ… making inculturation and inclusion, among other difficult issues, much easier to resolve.

If Rome were not amenable to raising Vatican II to a new rite within the Church, then one might remember that schism is not the dirty word it is made out to be.  If it weren’t for the Eastern Church schisms, for example, Vatican II would not have had the modern experience of inter-independent governance as a working Catholic model for its teachings on collegiality.  (Ever Ancient, Ever New: Structures of Communion in the Church by Archbishop John R. Quinn)

Vatican II expert, Richard Gaillardetz, wrote in his recent book, An Unfinished Council:  “Vatican II was in many ways an unfinished council.  The council bishops were able to establish key pillars in the construction of a new vision for the church of our time, but, for various reasons, they were not able to draw those pillars together into a coherent, unified structure.” 

Along comes Francis, who is trying “to draw those pillars together.”  Meanwhile, the energy of many Church reform organizations has been put on hold, as if this good pope and his advisory council can whip the Roman Catholic Church into a Vatican II mode… if only we wait long enough.  Likewise, theories abide that our pontiff can pack the curial court with Francis-type cardinals available for the next papal election… if only he lives long enough and we wait long enough. Yet as popular as Pope Francis is himself, no up-tick in Mass attendance has been evident.  And as for any possibility of doctrinal change, Pope Francis disavows the need for it.

The unfulfilled challenge of Vatican II is “to draw together those (key pillars identified by the council bishops)… to draw them “together into a coherent, unified structure” representing a new vision for the church of our time.  The questions we raise are these:

1.     Is the task of syncing the Vatican II and Roman visions for a vibrant unified Church an impossible task… as it has been for the past three papacies prior to Pope Francis? 

2.     Is this present task as impossible as was the syncing of the Eastern and Roman rite visions of the Church almost a thousand years ago?

3.     Do we need to abandon the idea of syncing different visions for the Church?  Could syncing these very different visions ultimately sink the Church? 

Historically, different rites developed in the Church.  These Catholic rites so needed to express their vision for the Church that they risked and endured schism in order to be faithful to that vision.  The universality of the Church calls us to stop looking at different western visions of Catholicism as inferior or as threat to the vision that the Roman Rite holds for the Church-at-large.

The full implementation of Vatican II may very well require the establishment of a new inter-independent Catholic rite alongside the 23 other Eastern rites already in union with Rome.  The work on this project starts with the self-identification of women and men, lay and clergy, as Vatican II Rite Catholics in union with Rome.  Much of the formation of a Vatican II Rite has already started with national and international reform organizations comprised of laity, theologians, clergy and religious, including local and regional Eucharistic communities. 

Now is the time to pick up the unfinished business of the Second Vatican Council:  transvaluation of doctrine and its intimate connection to liturgy.  The evolution of computer technology continues to make this task easier by the day while it also increases the potential for full and active participation of all.

In closing, we remember these words from Pope John XXIII’s inaugural address at the opening of the Second Vatican Council, October 11, 1962:

“In the present order of things, Divine Providence is leading us to a new order of human relations… And everything, even human differences, leads to the greater good of the church.”

 

The Future of the Church

Source: Vatican II Essays “The Church in Canada”

Richard Shields: “The “who” in “who will read the signs of the times?” are the People of God. The future of the Church in Canada is in the hands of the people.”

Lea’s Response to quote above:  The future of the Church worldwide is in the hands of the People of God! And right now, walk away they should! The “sensus fidei” is on target.  Unfortunately they are walking away from Catholicism, a universal Church which has so much more to offer than what the Roman Rite holds as its divine right to define and contain as Catholicism.

When will the “gray hairs” who have experienced the power of the Spirit Moving in Vatican II take a last bold step and free Vatican II from its suppression in the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church?

When will we together proclaim Vatican II as an equal inter-independent rite alongside the 23 Eastern rites in union with Rome? (Whether Rome wishes to be in union with us at this time is its decision.)

Imagine what this new rite could do for the universal Church in terms of diversity.  Just as the Eastern rites have their own theological perspectives, their own liturgical expressions, and their own methods of governance to contribute to the universal Catholic Church, so could the Vatican II Rite.

Will we not exercise this power we have to open the Church to equal participation in decision-making for women, LGBT persons, and for so many others?

Imagine the possibilities for inculturation and multi-cultural communities…the possibilities for ecumenism that were short-circuited soon after Vatican II!

Should we instead stand back in more and more humble obedience to a Roman Rite which has declared itself the universal Church with sole power to interpret the working of the Holy Spirt in Vatican II?

The Roman Rite NEEDS a Vatican II Rite!  All the Catholic Rites NEED each other as challenge to see differently.  The universal Catholic Church NEEDS a Vatican II Rite as much as it needs the Roman Rite and the 23 other Eastern Rites!

  • WHAT DO YOU THINK?
    Email 4Vatican2Rite@gmail.com to become a contributor.

Francis Juggles Vatican II & RCC

“He (Pope Francis) is a Christian certainly but he is also a Roman Catholic, and Christianity is only one component of Roman Catholicism. There is mercy on one side and control on the other. How will he keep both those balls in the air before one drops?”  William Shea From Internet Conference “50 Years After Vatican II”

Very good, honest question! The Pope is a Vatican II Rite Catholic in a Church institution of mostly Roman Rite Catholics. He is struggling with a polarization which is 50 years old and worsening by the day as it did with the past two popes…each side having very different views of God and the God-human relationship.

Isn’t it time to raise the suppressed Vatican II Council to the status of Rite along with the 20+ other inter-independent Catholic Rites in union with Rome?…Rites with different perspectives on theology and different practices in governance and liturgy.

Pope Francis could move the Vatican II Rite forward and Pope Emeritus Benedict could hold Roman Rite Catholicism intact…because both rites are going to need each other…a unity unafraid of diversity.
Just a thought…

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